14. Meltdowns: When Built-Up Pressure Releases

G'. Day. I'm Dave Whittingham.

And I'm Kate Morris.

Today we're looking at meltdowns. What are they? What supports can make a big difference. And also some complicated questions related to this topic. Well, g' day, everyone.Welcome back to Neurodivergence Family and Faith and Kate Morris. There are big congratulations in order for you on a couple of fronts. One, you've been married for 20 years. Congratulations so much.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. It's 20 years. Yeah. It doesn't feel that long, but yeah.

Yeah, no, that's great. It's four movie star marriages, so you're doing so well. Yeah. But also there's congratulations on another front as well.You've become an honorary fellow, is that right?

Yes, that's right. An honorary research fellow with Mary Andrews College.

And what is, what does that involve?

Well, actually, it'll involve continuing doing the work that I'm already doing. So I've spent the last couple of years researching and bringing that research to.Yeah, you guys, through writing, through podcast, through speaking, that sort of thing. So it involves, you know, research of papers and that sort of thing.But also I've spent a long time researching, asking families, asking adults, asking kids about their experiences of neurodivergence. And so this is in recognition of all the work I've been doing and in support of me continuing this into the future. So it's.It's unpaid, which is why it's honorary.But it's wonderful to be affiliated with Mary Andrews College as I do this, and be supported by them and to have the opportunities that this will bring.

Yeah, fantastic. Very, very exciting. And we're so glad that we benefit from your research and your ongoing thinking in this area today.We are going to benefit from that in a really big topic, aren't we, with the topic of meltdowns. So today we are going to be talking about meltdowns. Not every neurodivergent person has a meltdown, but when it happens, it can be really big.And so we're going to be talking about meltdowns and also shutdowns, which are similar but slightly different. They look different, don't they?

Yeah.

And so we'll be describing that a little bit more. What? We've divided this into two episodes, haven't we? Why are we doing that?

Because it's huge.Actually, there was a time there where I thought maybe it could be one, but let's do it over two, because this way we can spend the time that we need. It's a heavy topic. And so I think that's why I was hoping we could do it in one. But let's do it.Well, we're going to spend time in this episode looking at pre meltdowns and during meltdowns, and then in the next one, we're going to kind of look at after the meltdown and how to reflect well with the person who's had the meltdown, what needs to come next.And we're going to be tackling some really tricky questions, questions that I've been asked over time, and questions that I think are really important for us, particularly as Christian families, to be tackling when it comes to this topic.

Yeah.And it's worth saying as we kick off that this can both summon up big emotions, but also the big emotions might already be there for some of our listeners. And. And sometimes that can lead to suicidal thoughts. And we want to really flag that.If that is, you ask for help, you might not know who to ask for help. Sometimes it's just worth saying it to the closest person. But also, there are helplines, you know, suicide helplines in Australia.But speak to someone and say, look, I'm having these thoughts and say, please help, or point me in the direction of someone who can help, because there is help out there.

And.

And yeah, we want to support each other in that.

That's right, yeah. And just to mention, too, along the way, we are going to be using some quotes that mention suicidal ideation.So if that's a trigger for you, then just be careful there, too. So why don't we kick off, Dave, with actually talking about what meltdowns are? Because quite often meltdowns and tantrums are used interchangeably.My kid is in the shops and asks Mum for the chocolate biscuits and she says no. And there's a. And people will say a meltdown.But it's really important that we distinguish between the two because that's a tantrum, that's I want something. And yet they feel a flood of emotions that makes them angry, sad, whatever it might be. But a meltdown's actually quite different. This is.I wish we could have saved this especially for speaking of this phenomenon that can happen for neurodivergent people. It's a pressure buildup and then release. And so it's really important to understand that it's distinct from tantrums.So in a moment of a meltdown, giving something like chocolate or candy or lollies or whatever it might be, that's not going to stop it. It actually, once a meltdown begins, can't be simply stopped by handing something to them because it's a huge release.So Ted Hallowell, he's written a book called ADHD 2.0. He himself understands meltdowns. He's a neurodivergent man, experiences meltdowns, and he describes them as closer to a sneeze.You can't really stop a sneeze. You might feel the tickle and be able to blow your nose right beforehand and stop it.But once the sneeze is coming, your eyes are gonna close, the sneeze is gonna come out, and you have very little control in that sense. So that's one way that has been described.

So that's a really helpful description.

Yeah, I think it is. I think it. I think it falls down in a few places. We could almost reanalyze it at the end.I think it is really helpful to understand how distinct it is from tantrums. But, yeah, I wonder if it's complete.So we've talked in a lot of past episodes about how pressure can be building for a neurodivergent person throughout the day. We've looked at sensory input, we've looked at attention. We've looked at social differences in how they experience.They can experience social settings. We've looked at things like the amygdala part of the brain that is just so ready to interpret things as danger.There are so many things that can be triggers, and this can cause a fight, flight, or freeze response. So the fight response, when it comes to meltdowns, that can be a violent or, you know, full of motion meltdown.And we'll look into what that can look like in a moment.It can be an implosion, which is a person who's not moving around or running around, perhaps even incapacitated, unable to move, but experiencing that absolute flood. The freeze can be shutdowns. So a shutdown, these kind of.It's like a silent meltdown, almost A child, an adult, a teenager who is suddenly staring into space or suddenly frozen, unable to move, unable to speak, unable to respond. It's really important to understand shutdowns, and I think they're quite misunderstood because it can seem more willful.It can seem like that person, well, they're just standing there. Surely they can help me with the ditches, or surely they can respond when I'm asking them a question.But so important to understand that in shutdown, they also are experiencing pressure release from the buildup of pressure. They're also in a really volatile state. They're also going to need support during and after the shutdown.So as we're looking at all of these aspects of meltdowns, a lot of this will apply to shutdowns too.

Yeah, and as you said that I think all of those can appear very sudden, can't they? Very suddenly they, they do come out of a context. And that context is really, really important. It's what's led to it.But it, but it can be a whoa, what's just happened there?

Absolutely, that's right. It can look different for people when it does begin. It can look different for a person last week to this week or this situation to that situation.I should say that for all of this, this is all very much based on modern, up to date current research.And so if you're interested in understanding where some of these references come from, some of these ideas come from, I really encourage you to head to our citations. We have a huge number of citations this week. There's a lot out there and things have been changing. Our understanding really is growing.And so if there are things here that are surprising, it could be that there's some really interesting stuff out there for you to consider along the way. So there can be so many things that cause the pressure to build for a person. And this, this again is different person to person.And also a person can be more sensitive some weeks than other weeks, depending on how high their anxiety is, how much they've already been triggered by other things, that sort of thing. And so all of these will need to be understood in the context of the person you're caring for or the person who you are.But some of the things to consider for triggers. Why don't we start with social anxiety? Because that's a really important one. So social anxiety is really common for a lot of neurodivergent people.Even people who love being around people can still experience some degree of social anxiety, social fatigue, that sort of thing.One neurodivergent woman described to me how she understands that for physical exertion she's got a limit to how much she can run or how much she can do. And she said it's like that for her emotional exertion too. She's actually just got a limit for her.She's recognized that her limit is different to most people's limit around her. But she says that in the same way she says this, actually, I'll quote her here. Quote.Trying to keep up with everyone else is like trying to keep up with competitive long distance runners. Ignoring our body's cues to stop and rest Will lead the body to making us stop.So that can be a big aspect for people hitting the end of the day and they've pushed too far.

Yeah, because it's a really common thing, isn't it? For you see it in kids that are really great at school and they actually, the teachers think, oh yeah, this child is fine.And then they get home and suddenly there's this massive blow up or meltdown or end. And the, the teacher's like, oh yeah, no, I've never seen that. But actually they've been holding that together the whole day.And the social pressure of fitting into a particular way of acting that has caused that buildup that's led to the meltdown when they've got home.

Absolutely. That is so common. That's right. That's really important to understand. And it can feel like, well, does this person have sort of two personalities?One minute they're great at being around people and then next they're not. No, it's. It's one person dealing with a lot and that pressure builds. So also like thinking about school or it could be work.The effort it can take for some to focus attention can be enormous.It can be really draining for people or to be pulling apart goals or steps in tasks that have been given, whether at work or university or school or whatever it might be working out. It's executive function in the, in the brain. Working out how to plan and organize time, figure out steps, reach a goal.That can be exhausting for people too. Rejection sensitivity dysphoria is worth mentioning.I know I think we've mentioned it on an episode before, but let me just dip into this a little bit. I reckon we could do a whole episode on this sometime. Dave, maybe we should write that down.

Are you saying that I've done the really wrong thing by not talking about it enough? Because I feel like you're.

Okay so that. No. Rejection sensitivity dysphoria is a really crippling state for a lot of people to be in where they will perceive things as rejection.So perhaps it's someone saying I don't want to play with you today. Perhaps it's the teacher saying sit still.Perhaps it's them deciding they're going to fill their page with writing and they didn't fill the page with writing.The sense of rejection can come from a lot of places and it's called rejection sensitive dysphoria because it's a, it's a, they're sensitive to it and it's an overinflation of what's actually going on. But a person can feel this sense of guilt, of sadness, of rejection for days.And so it can be something that's really wearing on them and really impacting their self esteem, their self perception, their motivation to continue as well, their motivation to socialize, that sort of self value thing can be huge for people. And of course sensory aspects is just massive when it comes to meltdown.There are whole papers on how important the sensory input is for a person who experiences meltdown. So this can come from a lack of internal perception.So a person who doesn't realize they've been needing to go to the bathroom for the entire day, or that they're thirsty all day, or that they haven't eaten all day and haven't sensed hunger, and yet the body is experiencing the difficulties that come from that. Or even more commonly, it's from being triggered by sensory input. So being triggered and interpreting these triggers as threat.So again, back to the amygdala.This hypervigilant amygdala, bright lights for one person might be a bit uncomfortable, maybe they'll get sore eyes for another person, it can actually feel brighter. So we're starting to understand kind of this ultra connectivity that's often in brains, particularly of autistic people.But people with sensory processing differences will often have a hyper connectivity, which means that those lights are even brighter for them.But more than that, it's triggering anxiety, it's triggering fear, it's triggering a sense that they need to run and yet it's assembly time, they have to sit still or. And yet they want to play this soccer game and it's the floodlights on the field and so they've got to stay or whatever it might be.There's a really helpful paper that I'm going to keep referring to throughout this episode. It's, I'm going to link it in the notes. I'll put it right at the, at the top of the citation. So it's easy to find. But it's so helpful.It's all about the feeling of a meltdown by a lady called Mary Doherty, who's an associate professor of medicine and she's an autistic woman, so she's, you know, respected, she's extremely intelligent and she's writing about a meltdown, one particular meltdown that she had in this paper. So yeah, meltdowns aren't just for kids. So Mary talks about walking into a conference that she's presenting at and here's what she said.Quote, as I entered, I was overwhelmed by an onslaught of sensory inputs. Deafening noise, bright lights, huge flashing screens, nauseating carpets, jostling crowds, food smells.All these merged into an overwhelming sensory nightmare. And then the paper goes on to describe her efforts to regulate through all of this.She wears her headphones, her earmuffs, I mean, to muffle some of the sounds. She finds a space to go and sit where she can't smell the smells quite so strong.But in this case, she wasn't able to regulate through it, and she had a meltdown. Sensory was big for her in this. But, yeah, the pressure can be building from any trigger or multiple triggers.

I love that in her description there, part of the. One of the triggers was nauseating carpet. And he's like, shame on the person who chose that carpet.But all of those things together have obviously led to something.

Yeah. And it's one of those things, isn't it?You know, I didn't ever realize that carpet could be nauseating until I learned from one of my kids that carpet can be nauseating. And tiles, certain tiles can be nauseating. There's just this amazing perception of patterns and a sensitivity to what that pattern does to the eyes.And that's some whole aspect of the world that I hadn't been aware of.

Yeah. And it's different to. I'm really into patterns and things, and I look at that and go, that's just a horrible, horrible thing.Why did someone ever do that? It's not that it has such a deeper impact on the person, doesn't it?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Nauseating carpet. That's not just. I didn't agree with the carpet. Yeah.And it's really helpful to have someone like Mary explain what this is like so that we can see what it's like for her, but also to give us questions that we can be asking people. So to be reducing some of these triggers, you can see how it's really important. It can make a big difference.If Mary hadn't walked into this conference center and been bombarded in this way, if she'd been able to eliminate some of those triggers, perhaps by being able to come in a side door and not be bombarded straight away, perhaps that would have made a huge difference to how she was able to gently get used to the space. So we can be working with our kids to reduce these triggers.We were always talking about eliminating triggers, mitigating triggers, and regulating through triggers. So head back to episode two and three to think about that.

Yeah.Because it's not just about saying, my kid's autistic, and so they have meltdowns and throwing our hands in the air and saying there's nothing we can do.Actually, even in that quote that you read out before that story, she actually worked hard to say, oh, this is so overwhelming, and I need to put some things in place. And in that situation, it didn't work like she still had the meltdown, but there.But it could have, potentially, it could have worked and she worked to do that. And so we need to be aware of that. And we'll talk more about that as well as we go on and in the next episode.

Yeah, it makes a huge difference, doesn't it? That's right, Exactly. Yep. So what are some signs that the meltdown might be coming?I kind of wish there was like a neat little checklist here, the five things to look out for before a meltdown comes, but there isn't. And this comes to another thing, Dave, that you and I keep talking about, about being curious, collaborative and creative.So we want to be asking our kids, so we'll get there in the next episode, talking after the meltdown about what the triggers might have been. We need to be working with our kids to be able to think through what were the triggers.But also what did you notice you were doing right before that moment when fell on the floor or when you started yelling or whatever it might be. For some, they'll notice that their heart rate rises. So for some, that's easy to notice.Some can wear a watch on their wrist that can monitor their heart rate. And if they're not sure if their heart rate's they've noticed they're agitated. They could actually look and see how their heart rate's going.You might notice a person becoming more energetic, so stimming more that perhaps is flapping or spinning a way of trying to regulate using their body? It could be that they're walking around in circles quite quickly. They might be doing some repetitive actions.Whether that's hitting their head on the floor, whether that's tapping their hands together, you'll know what your child or the person you love does. Sometimes speech gets a lot louder or quieter or faster. Or sometimes they start to lose their speech. They're not able to form the words as easily.It becomes more grunting. Sometimes they'll become ultra fixated on something, desperately trying to focus their attention on something.But this is just a few things, so maybe start with those, but definitely be ready to expand that list according to the person you're caring for.Or if you're watching this in yourself, then perhaps those are some things to begin with, but be developing some awareness over time, because if you're able to catch that danger zone is coming, we'll talk about some things that you can do at that moment in order to hopefully stop the meltdown before it begins. So.

And that curiosity from a parenting perspective, yes, it's helpful for you as a parent to see when it's coming, and you should certainly be looking out for triggers, but asking those questions, particularly about what's going on inside the body, things that only they can notice, and it empowers them to actually take steps themselves to avert what could be coming.

Absolutely. But, you know, like, all of this can come with such huge emotion that it can be really hard to have a conversation with a person around these things.It can be really tricky to say, I noticed you were pacing and you were focusing and you were repeating the same word before the meltdown. You know, it might be really hard for them to have a discussion about, oh, and I noticed my heart was pounding. That might be complicated for some.That will actually be really wonderful and validating. But we just also need to navigate this so carefully.It might be that for a time, you're observing and you're noticing and it's a bit tricky to be pulling this apart at this stage of life with them. But yeah, we're working towards that collaboration, helping them have the tools to recognize in themselves. That's right.And your plan to reduce some triggers, to bring in some regulation, hopefully this can be collaborative, but again, that might be over time that the collaboration can happen. What's something that is really calming for this person? Can you hand them a glass of iced water at that moment with a straw?Because using your mouth can often calm down. Is that something wonderful is offering to kick a ball and not be chatty? Is that a helpful thing for them?Would they like to stand on a balance board if you have one? Perhaps they'd like to eat something really, really crunchy or have something really soft over time.If you can work out something that sort of says, I'm alongside you, I'm with you, let's do something that's going to pull this body down. And if you catch it early enough, it might be that they're ready to engage with some of these regulating things. And over time it can become a habit.I can see what's going on. Let's regulate.We'll be talking in the next episode about some responsibility, taking some responsibility to according to capacity and that sort of thing. To be reaching for some of these things at the Right time. Yeah. According to ability and that sort of thing.

Yeah, we've. We've had a. You can get them. It's a metal roller that we just keep in the freezer or the fridge.And you take it out and you just roll it up and down your cheek. And that is a sensory thing that takes you out of the pressure. It's like the other thing.

I love that. Yeah, there you go. Often cold is something that people will often reach for. It can also be pressure, like a blanket, a weighted blanket.Gosh, they're really lovely. Weighted blanket. Or even gently putting a cushion on top of the person and gently pressing down. Yeah. A big squeeze for some, not touching for others.It's. It's so personal, isn't it? Depends what people like. But it's. It's this teamwork thing. It's this understanding the pressure's building.That's not because you're a horrible person. That's because the pressure's building. And we weren't able to or we didn't get rid of these triggers that have led to this point. That's okay.Let's deal with this now. It's a calm, loving way to approach things. And that teamwork spirit can continue even if the meltdown does happen.So why do we move into what a meltdown can look like? Because even with all that work, meltdowns can still happen. And sometimes families will know that what they're seeing is a meltdown.But sometimes families won't have yet understood that what's happening is a meltdown. So I think it's really important that we spend some time reading about what meltdowns can look like.So in some of my research, I've been hearing from Christian families about what it can look like in their home. And I think, Dave, what if we read these quotes out? Do you want to just.I'd love to just kind of have lots of quotes so that we can see such a variety. When we say meltdowns, we are not all talking about the same thing.

Absolutely. So we'll read them out. We'll. We'll take it in turns. But it is worth warning people at the beginning that these are. Some of these are quite intense.And so you may need to prepare yourself for that emotionally.So the first one we've got here is my child will become very angry and yell harmful words, say we don't love her, and might physically try to attack someone near her.

End quote. Sometimes our son can be so angry, he throws things at us and calls us idiots.

Our child Becomes violent and is very difficult to live with. We have to lock the doors in the car when we drive home because we're worried that she will throw herself out of the car in her rage.

Yeah, and this is a quote about what it looks like too. Screaming at us, swearing, hitting us, kicking us, shaking, trembling, unable to speak, stammering body language, is turning in on herself.Looking down and away, clenching fists, threats of self harm, suicide threats. Oh, sorry. Threatens to jump out of a moving car to kill herself.

Another parent crying, screaming, lying on the floor, throwing themselves on the floor, hitting themselves, throwing things, hitting me.

And this quote, my son will become very overwhelmed and will start hitting his head, trying to hurt himself, and will speak of not wanting to live.

Another one. Our daughter becomes mute except screaming and noises, but trying desperately to talk.She tries to sign the words but can't get her hands to work properly. And she knocks over furniture in frustration.

And this quote, he'll hide and curl in a ball covering his ears and eyes and stay like that for ages. Sometimes he'll say horrible things about himself, like, I'm stupid.

Another parent. Our daughter grunts and groans, is non verbal, repeatedly bangs objects, for example, her chair or the table.

And this quote, hyperventilating, weeping hysterically, going to her room and hiding under her blankets.

So now I feel like I need a weighted blanket just sitting on me and going, I need to go and have a lie down.

Yeah, go for it.

Because those are really big.

I mean, they are.

They're massive.And I think it's worth saying here that these are really big, obviously for the people going through the meltdown or shutdown or whatever it is, but they are also really big for everyone around them. They're huge for the parents who are listening to their child or watching their child do these things.They're really big for the brothers and sisters. And it's worth. We certainly have to think about how to help our neurodivergent children.But our children who haven't gone through that, they're gonna need some processing time later on as well, which we can talk about more next week. But, yeah, this is big for everyone.

Yeah, that's right.It's worth remembering, isn't it, that parents, we're gonna need support as we do this, as we support the person having a meltdown, as we support the siblings or anyone else living in the house as well. I recommend a couple of articles I've written actually on this. There's one in particular, it's called Parents of Neurodivergent Children.Need support too.The article is what it says on the tin, so I'll put a link for that in the show notes or as always, you can search Kate Morris, Neurodivergence, and you'll find my archive there. Yeah, we, we mustn't downplay what an impact this can have on families as a whole and for the person as well.So why don't we spend some time now thinking through what it can feel like from the inside for a person experiencing those meltdowns. It's always really important that we're hearing from neurodivergent people themselves on this.

Yeah, it's so important for a whole bunch of reasons because as you said before, there's a lot of scientific study into this, which is really great, but it's so important to hear. Even if all meltdowns felt exactly the same for everyone, it's still this individual's experience, isn't it?And so honouring them and listening to them, but they actually are all different. And so we need to hear from each individual what is it like for them and also I think for parents.And this has been really helpful for me as a parent.I get pain from my child going through meltdowns, so there's things that happen to me, but listening to them and hearing from them about what their experience is takes me out of my pain and into their experience. And it's much easier for me to have compassion at that point rather than just focusing on, hey, I've just had to deal with all this.So it's really helpful from that perspective.

How lovely. Yeah, that's great. That's really helpful. Yeah. So why don't we, why don't we have a little look at this?So it's good to remember that from the outside it can look, it can look willful, it can look like they're in control, but choosing this. But as we said at the start, that's not the way to understand a meltdown. That's perhaps more of a way to understand a tantrum.People speak so commonly of an out of body experience.Watching their bodies doing these things, being shocked that their body knows how to hit, or being shocked that their mouth is saying these, these words. We're going to look at responsibility, we're going to look at sin, we're going to look at all of that in the next episode.But if we can just sit in this, in this moment, it's really important to understand that often there is such a lack of control that a person simply can't move their legs, simply can't form the words or simply can't stop the words. And so it's really important to understand that sense of fear that can come with this and that sense of lack of control.And particularly when you read through what neurodivergent people themselves say about meltdowns. And I'll put some links to some papers that have interviewed people.So often people speak about terror that people around them will stop loving them or will judge them differently because of what's going on. That's so, so common. It's worth, it's worth mentioning here though.Even when these meltdowns, these sort of out of body experiences are something beyond people's control in that moment, that doesn't mean that we're without hope of change. So therapy can be extremely helpful in this.Understanding from families can be extremely helpful not only in stopping the meltdown before it's starts, but in working with the person when meltdowns are nowhere on the horizon to retrain the body, to retrain what knee jerk reactions their body might have to work with that person to work out what things people around them will be doing to make the meltdown worse and what things people around them can be doing to make things better. So there's still hope.So even as we say that in those moments things feel out of their control, we do still have hope that things might change over time and we'll dive into that a little bit more. But why don't we go back to that professor we mentioned, the start, Mary. So she's a grown woman, she's educated.Here she is at a conference, not as a participant but as a presenter. As the presenter at this conference, she has all the reasons and all the motivation in the world not to melt down at this moment.No one needs to say to her, stop your embarrassing yourself. She knows that this is not the time, but the pressure for her was absolutely too much. So she describes some of the meltdown in this paper.She describes being, quote, crouched, shaking and sobbing in a corner. I could form no words, but only grunt. I had totally lost control. I needed complete silence, darkness, no touching and no demands to interact.The potential for the situation to escalate was enormous. And later she reflects, during my meltdown, I was scared, vulnerable, out of control and unrecognisable even to myself.

Yeah, that's part of the having compassion and understanding, isn't it? Because that's a scary situation to be in. So from the outside you might look like, hang on, what are you doing?But you know, inside the wow, that person Is, Yeah, it's massive for them. And it interesting how she said the potential for the situation to escalate was enormous.And it's so easy for parents and other people to do things that will make it escalate. So a lack of understanding will actually add to that pressure.All those things that have led to the meltdown, we can build on top of that and just make it worse.

Yeah, absolutely. That's right. Yeah. A 10 year old girl explains to me what she wants in a meltdown and what it's like for her.She says, I get angry and I don't want to talk to the person I'm angry with ever again. I feel hot and shaky. I can't control anything. I don't decide to punch anyone. It just happens.She's feeling completely out of control there and scared. She's terrified in this moment. And a Christian man, he tells me when I melt down, everything is too difficult. Any ask of me is too much.I feel like I have no options and that everything in my life will fall apart. I become consumed by the meltdown and can't easily break out of it.I become irrational and can't focus on anything and can't think from anyone else's point of view.

It's easy for Christians to be really keen on discipline and helping our kids to do the right thing. And you know, that's very important. But it's so important here to hear from those people. I can't control this. I don't make choices about this.I'm not being rational or reasonable.And yeah, I think it's really important for parents to hear that because otherwise we can approach this from a really unhelpful and unloving direction and treat it as a discipline issue. But it's not a discipline issue.

Yeah, that's right, exactly. Yeah, I agree. In the moment of the meltdown, that is not the time to be correcting or expecting very much from the person.So why don't we look at what it is the time for, what you can do in this time of meltdown. So again, let's turn to what people themselves say that they need in these moments. So adult Christian men.He told me, he says, quote, as a teen during a meltdown, I needed a calm adult presence who wasn't shocked by what was going on or looking for an excuse to get out of there. Someone who would tell me that it was okay and that everything was going to be fine. Another person, a young girl, tells me what she wants.She says, leave me alone but come back When I calm down, sometimes I don't want to be left alone, but I can't stop yelling at them. How hard. Right. She recognizes her actions are sending people away, but she's actually, I mean, we've heard about the fear and the terrorists.She's torn between maybe go, but then come back. But maybe I don't want to be alone. Maybe I wish I could stop yelling at them.

Yeah.And that's part of the emotional weight from the parents perspective of saying, actually as parents we do need to keep reading the situation because the situation can be different. There are times where you can't touch them and other times where they desperately need a hug. And as a parent, you will need to recover from that.That. But in the moment, we need to keep working at reading this situation really well and understanding them, which is hard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. One, one adult said to me when I used to have meltdowns, I hated it when my parents would ask me questions and try to figure out what's wrong.I couldn't move my body, wasn't doing what I told it to, and everything was just the worst. I wanted someone to be close but not talking to or touching me. Yeah. So that's, that's helpful, isn't it?And I mean this is a theme keeps coming up as well. And it's important to understand that probably one of the biggest things that people want is to know that they're still loved through this.So if you can be a presence, whether that's on the other side of their door or whether that's in the same room with them, whatever works for the person. But a presence that is just exuding love. Someone who you can be saying things like, I love you, you can say things like, this will be over soon.Because another theme that's very common is it feels like it's going forever.In fact, I've read one quote already where, you know that man, he said that he felt like everything in his life will fall apart, as if this is a forever thing with massive forever consequences. No, no, this will end. For some parents, they even set a timer. They've worked out that a normal meltdown for their child goes for this long.They set a timer, helps them know that it's going to end. But it can also be something for the child to know time is passing and it will end.Repeating how much you love them, that they will feel better soon is really important. Professor Tony Atwood, who is a really important person who's done a lot of research over decades into autism in particular.He says that your role during a meltdown is to be a GPS. Now, I can tell you all about GPSs because I'm terrible at maps. So for me, here's what a GPS does.I'm driving along and it says, turn right, and I keep going. And it doesn't say, I'm sorry back there, Kate, where you're supposed to turn right now, you're going to be two minutes late.If you keep doing this and you're not listening to me, you're going to end up being 10 minutes late. And there's none of that. It just kind of goes, turn left in 200 meters and there am I going. I don't know what just happened. I hope things are okay.I can correct it.

I've never thought about the graciousness of GPS machines before, but. Yeah, that is really lovely. Oh, no, I do. Yeah. That's a really helpful illustration.

Maps in my head. Isn't it ever? And this is the role of a parent in the moment of the meltdown. This isn't forever.As a parent, we're just talking about this really specific moment in a meltdown. Something happens that shouldn't have happened during this meltdown. Tell them what to do next.But remember, like that girl said, that they don't want someone talking to them. They. They don't want to be told what to do in these moments. But sometimes there will be guidance that needs to be given or just gentle corrections.That's okay.We'll fix up that water afterwards, whatever it might be to show that you're not phased by this, like the little GPS thing or whatever it says, and you're still there, you're still on course, whatever is going to happen, which takes an enormous amount of energy for parents. So parents, do as you've said, Dave, need to be caring for themselves in this as well.

Yeah, and I was just thinking as you're speaking, it actually takes enormous amount of prayer as well, doesn't it? Because, you know, yes, we'll fix up that plant later is one level.And then saying, oh, yes, we'll fix up that hole in the wall later, or we'll fix up that tree that was chopped down later. It's, you know, it's nice to say, wouldn't it be nice to be calm like that? But we need help with that.And although there are friends and people who can help later on in the moment, of course God is always present and always active, and so to be praying through that, please give me the graciousness. Please Give me the patience to not absorb all this stuff that's happening, but to just keep saying, okay, yep, calm. What's next?

Yeah, that's so helpful, keeping that open prayer. Isn't it wonderful that God is with us and listens to our prayers no matter what's going on?Even if it's the same prayer that you repeat again and again.

Yeah. Because in that moment, you can feel so alone, can't you? Because they. It's like, what is going on?My child is obviously not interacting at a rational level. You might be the only one in the house. Maybe the other parent has had to go and help the other children and you can feel alone.But just to say to yourself, I'm not alone. God is with me and he can give me the strength to keep being the support to this person.

Yeah, that's right. I think that's just so important to keep remembering and to keep reminding parents of along the way as well.And through all of this, another really important aspect to understand is what's actually going on in the brain at that moment of meltdown. So a person actually loses access to the part of their brain that's capable of logic and reasoning.And so when I miss the right hand turn or whatever I'm actually capable of, like I would be capable of understanding if the GPS was to say to me, kate, now you're going to be two minutes later. And perhaps it would help me pay more attention if. If it did tell me that.But this is actually where it's really important to understand why we mustn't be saying here are the consequences, or if you don't stop this right now, here's what's going to happen.Because actually those words are falling on ears that can't right now process that they're not able to access that you're expecting something of them that they're not physically, mentally able to do at that moment. So remembering that it's going to take time and we'll look at when is the right time, when they will have access again to that part of the brain.But this is why we need to be putting off some of those more complex things as well. It's not just a physical. Can't speak, can't move for some people. It's also a mental aspect going on too.

Yeah.

As we talk about all of this, if you're experiencing violence in your home, it's just really important that we address that.If there's a child who's violent and you're coping okay with that level of Violence, you still need support and you still need would do well to be accessing things like therapies or support that's going to help you work out methods to support the child in that violence.If you're experiencing violence from someone and that that violence is causing damage or pain to you or people in your family, I just want to be heard to say this isn't okay. We can't be saying that because a person is neurodivergent, therefore we're all going to end up with bruises.And so it's really, really important that you seek help.So it might be in your country, you might need to go to a medical doctor and begin a conversation around what supports are available for families who have out of control violence happening. It's really important to be accessing therapies as well.So if there's an adult or teenager in their family understanding that part of their responsibility to the family is to be working on reducing that violence, that's not okay. And there is hope.So with working with psychologists with OTs, there can be things that can be put in place to make it so that violence isn't impactful on others, working out strategies for family members in order to protect themselves. This isn't something to wait around and hope that it's better tomorrow or next year. It's something to work out now.And this is part of living in bodies that are going to struggle with different things in the world. In the next episode, we're looking at a little bit more of what that looks like to be working with people in meltdowns.I just wanted to, I felt like we couldn't just wait till the next episode to address the question of violence in particular.

Yeah, because it's a weird dynamic, isn't it?Like we want to acknowledge the lack of control, but we also want to say there is responsibility for finding a better way forward and there are people who can help find that better way forward and support through that.So as you said, the psychologists, the doctors, this is really important to not just say, well, this is my life, throw your hands in the air and just expect to cope with it. Yeah, there is hope and, and to acknowledge that this is not where we want to be. We want to be in a much better place.Okay, so what are we going to do? What are you, as the autistic person going to do? What am I as the parent, as the supporter going to do to help get us to a better place?

Yeah, I think that's right.

Hey, this has been a really heavy episode it's felt heavy to me. I don't know about you, but. But it's worth ending with a Bible verse that just.It actually starts with the words, I lift my eyes because it's worth lifting our eyes and lifting our hearts to the God who is so powerful and so wonderful as our care and our protector. This is Psalm 121, and it's a song of ascents. And. Do you mind if I'll read it out? It's only a short one.It says, I lift my eyes towards the mountains. Where will my help come from? My help comes from the Lord, the Maker of heaven and earth. He will not allow your foot to slip.Your protector will not slumber. Indeed, the protector of Israel does not slumber or sleep. The Lord protects you. The Lord is a shelter right by your side.The sun will not strike you by day or the moon by night. The Lord will protect you from all harm. He will protect your life. The Lord will protect your coming and going, both now and forever.It doesn't mean bad things don't happen. We are not in the new creation yet, but God is with us in the pain, and he does protect us and look after us. And there is hope.So when things are hard, when you're in that moment, keep coming, bringing your mind back to the Lord. Because he is stronger than us. He's better than us. He knows and controls the future in a way that we can't. And so rest in Him.

Yeah. Isn't that. Isn't that wonderful? What wonderful words to maybe have on our fridge or have around the home as well, to be teaching our kids.It's a scary big, yeah world. But we owe the Creator and we're so safe and so loved. Well, that's where we'll end this episode.The next episode comes out in two weeks, although if you're listening to this in the future, then you can just skip straight to the next one and finish this conversation with us.I really hope that this has been helpful, and I hope the next one as well, in sort of partnership with this one, will help round out some of those thoughts, figure out what needs to happen next, and particularly addressing some of these really big questions that we've kind of touched on. But I feel like there are some things we've touched on a little bit here, and we're going to dive in a little bit more in the next episode.So please join us in that.

Absolutely. And also, if you are finding the podcast helpful, it'd be really great if you can put in a review and or a star rating on your app.If your app does allow for a written review, that's particularly helpful because it just says to other people who see the podcast, they might be thinking, do I bother pressing play or not? Your words can just really help them press play for the first time and discover for themselves that it's helpful.So if you're up for that, that would be really great. You can also leave a review at our website if your app doesn't allow you to write some words.And so if you go to faithforgod.net and you click on the Neurodivergence Family and Faith Podcast, there's a button there where you can leave a review, and that'd be really helpful. But for now, thank you very much, Kate, and we'll see you in the next episode.

See you then.