15. After the Meltdown: What happens Next?

Hi, I'm Kate Morris.

And I'm Dave Whittingham.

Today we're going to look at what the body needs as a meltdown begins to pass. We're going to look at some big questions around talking this through with your family members.

G', day, everyone. Welcome back to Neurodivergence, Family and Faith. We are in our second episode talking about meltdowns.Last week we looked at what is a meltdown and what can it look like. We particularly wanted to reiterate, a meltdown is not a tantrum. It's something quite different.Meltdowns come after there's been a big buildup of pressure.And even if you haven't seen it, sometimes it's below the surface, but then it just all gets released and then you see the meltdown and it can be quite big and dramatic. Sometimes it's very quiet for some people. We talked about last week that it's not a meltdown but a. What's the word, Kate?

Shutdown is what you're looking for.

A shutdown. Yeah, shutdown. Sometimes people have a shutdown, but it is that release of all. All those things that have been pent up.But this week we're going to be talking about, okay, as that breaks down, as you move on past that moment, how do you recover?How do you have a conversation with your child about what's happened and what are the important questions to ask in that conversation and when is the right time to have it?

That's so important to be thinking through because there are. There are sort of stages of a meltdown.So last time we talked about, before the meltdown begins, those triggers, the pressure building, then there is the meltdown. If it wasn't able to be stopped before it began, and the meltdown needs to sort of work its course at that point, and then there's time afterwards.And it can be quite surprising how long it can take for a meltdown to. To pass. And if you picture a hill coming down the other side as a meltdown ends, you're beginning that descent.But the end of a meltdown isn't actually the bottom of the hill yet. The meltdown can end and there's actually still time coming down that hill.And so why don't we have a talk about kind of when the meltdown has ended, what's that kind of next stage? The meltdown can take time to pass and so can this next part. So you might notice a person's breathing becomes a little bit slower.Their muscles might become more relaxed if they were engaging Some repetitive words, some repetitive actions. They might start to be able to break free from some of those repetitive things.They might be able to lie down or stand up, or if they weren't able to be touched before now, they might be able to be held. You'll notice a change and that's kind of a sign that, that things are shifting and you're still in a space where the meltdown can begin again.So it's still really important in this moment as well, to be supportive and regulating and calm, to continue what we said last time about assuring this person that you love them, that you're there, that you're going to regulate together, keeping your breathing calm, keeping your words clear, your sentences short, in order to help be part of this recovery together, but in a way that's going to really help bring them down and help them to calm down. For a lot of people, there are physical aspects to the meltdown that will continue even after the meltdown has ended.So they might not be able to see very well. Vision's often clouded.They might have a foggy sort of a brain, as their brain still actively seeks to make more contact with the other part of the brain, beyond kind of the primal instincts aspect of the brain, trying to re access logic and reasoning and that sort of thing. A person can feel sick or wobbly or shaky for a while afterwards, and a person also can be unable to speak for a time afterwards.In the last episode, I referred to a paper written by Mary Doherty, who's an associate professor of medicine, who reflected on a meltdown she had when she was at a conference to present a paper.And in that she also speaks about what it was like after the meltdown had ended, but while she was still suffering some of the consequences of the meltdown. So for her, she found it very difficult to be able to form words, to be able to speak. So she speaks of what it was like coming out of the meltdown.She'd been in a room, in a safe space where, where she was having the meltdown and now she was being summoned to come and give her talk. And this is what she says. Slowly, I stood and signalled silently that I was ready to leave. I could tell she was concerned, confused and uncertain.I did not look capable of giving a talk at that point, but she respected my autonomy and guided me to my session. An organiser introduced herself, but I could only nod. She asked if I wanted my slides displayed, but I was unable to respond.I watched her confusion without any capacity to relieve it. I remembered the emergency chat app on my phone and typed that I was not going to use my slides.So you can see in that quote there that she was coming out of the meltdown. She was beginning to increase incapacity again. And yet speech was slower than some other things.She was now able to walk, she was now able to move, she was now able to interact, but her speech hadn't yet caught up to where the rest of her body was.So the emergency chat app, it's called Emergency Chat, is something that some will have on their phone in order to be able to type something and pass that to someone to communicate with them when speech hasn't caught up yet.And there might be other things that for the person you're loving, something that they need that takes time to catch up, it might be their legs, it might be their hands.In the last episode, we heard from a family who said that their child wasn't able to speak during the meltdown, but their hands also weren't able to work.So we need to work out what it's like as they're coming out of this and just make accommodations for them to slowly have their body catch up as their mind is slowly coming out of this.

Yeah, really helpful to say this is not a. Because it can come on very suddenly, but it is going to take a little while or maybe even a long while to sort of work through that.It's worth acknowledging that as parents, we might have all sorts of feelings. As that happens, we might get a flood of emotion. It could be anger, it could be guilt, it could be shame, could, you know, all sorts of things.And just being aware that, yes, you will need some self care there along the way as well. But just to be aware that just because something's changed and you can see you're moving on, that's not the time to stop the care.There is a time coming where you get to walk away and just have your time. But we do need to keep monitoring and caring and looking after our child.

Yeah, absolutely.And parents checking in with each other, how they're going, if they're, if they've had, if they've been supporting someone through this in that day, or if you're solo parenting, finding someone outside of your family, not just another kid in the family, but another person who you can be leaning on, someone you can text in that moment and say, here's what's happening. And they can check in on you and you can communicate in them what you need in those moments as a supporter as well.When I write to you, please do you ask me these questions and help me out?These things are really important and we need to be understanding what it can be like for a person who's experienced a meltdown as they come out of it. So a Christian man told me that for him. Here's his quote. He says, it's exhausting. I'm very low on energy and I'm slow to restart.There are feelings of shame that I put other people through that experience. I feel anxious about how it will affect work and relationships if it happens again. It can take weeks to recover properly.And a little girl told me how she feels after a meltdown. She says this quote, I feel sad that I did the wrong thing. I promise to do better tomorrow. I get worried my family are upset at me.I get worried that I should not act like that. When I'm 10 years old, I am sad because everyone is upset at me.

Yeah, it's. I mean, those feelings of shame, guilt, sadness, they're just so overwhelming even to hear and to reflect on.We talked last time about how it's so important to hear what our children are feeling so that we understand that and it increases our capacity for compassion. And I think as we hear those feelings from these people, just increasing our capacity for grace.Because at that point, you know, we don't want to load up more guilt and more shame or anything like that. But that can be easy to do. But actually we want to be increasing the grace and helping them to feel safe and loved and cared for.Knowing that what has happened hasn't changed the fact that you love them. I used to tell my kids lots, there is nothing you can do that'll stop me loving you.

Wonderful. Yeah, that's right.Communicating that explicitly, making it very clear, not just hope, that implicitly over time you've communicated that that is something to be so clear about. And it's not uncommon for people to not want to reflect on these things after a meltdown.Perhaps the person wants to kind of double down and defend themselves and pretend that it didn't happen or whatever it might be.So actually opening the communication, assuming that whether they're saying it out loud or not, that they're aware of what's happened, they're aware of the risk to relationship. They're aware that people are feeling sad or hurt. They're most likely feeling embarrassed and wishing that it hadn't happened.So many people experiencing meltdowns reflect on how horrible it is for them. And it's lovely to hear these two. I just quoted then about them being concerned about other people.So it's good to assume that even if they're not communicating and communicate with them from that place, with that love that you spoke of, Dave, and also with hope that these things can be getting better, that that you will be putting in place some systems to be reducing those triggers that we looked at last time.And also systems to be able to be reflecting together, communicating together so you'll know this person you're loving well and you'll know when is the right time to be speaking to them. Give it a good amount of time.You might be waiting to the next day, you might be waiting to that weekend, but finding a time to say when that meltdown occurred.Can you think of some things that were adding to that pressure for you and see if they can identify a thing or several things that made that pressure build. If they can't, or even if they can, you might have some things to suggest too. I did notice that you are holding your nose as we were cooking dinner.Did that also add to everything you'd experienced in the day? Or I remember you saying that you got in trouble at school. Was that something that made you feel sad and you couldn't get off your mind?You might have some things that made them feel that way.You don't have to just rely on their reflections, but reflecting out loud with them that you're conscious that the world is tricky and that there are triggers and it can really build this sense of teamwork and this sense of hope as you think through.You know, maybe I shouldn't have cooked spicy food that's really deliciously smelly on a day when I knew you were going to come home from sport and you don't like sport at school because it's exhausting, whatever it might be. Why don't I make sure I just cook those smelly foods on the weekend?Or I notice that you've been saying a lot like that you're ears are hurting at the end of the day. Can I buy you earplugs or earmuffs? And we see if we can work out a way to help.It's likely to be such a range of triggers that were feeding into this. Even if it's often one trigger that you know, that is the straw that breaks the camel's back.There are likely to be many things, so don't just stop at one thing, but it doesn't mean you have to address all things all at once. But this, this teamwork, this hope, this willingness to get together and make the world a little less triggering is Such an important thing.And this teamwork, too, also means that together you can be saying, you know, why don't we do this next time? Why don't we try this next time? Okay, that. That wasn't enough. That didn't help. That's okay. Why don't we try this?What a lovely thing to be communicating.

Absolutely. It's so good to be able to say to your child, we are in this together. This is not just all about you.And even that little thing of what you're saying about, you know, I'm sorry for cooking the spicy meal on a day. I know that you're going to struggle more, says, hey, you know, I'm involved in this process as well.And so they don't have to feel like I'm just a bad person and it's just all about me and I'm broken. And so you're in this together.But also, as you talk and you ask those questions, you are actually equipping them to take responsibility for what they can take responsibility for. So if you're going to get earmuffs, they're going to.They're going to wear those earmuffs and say, yeah, this is a good thing, or this is not a helpful thing. But they actually are part of that process of working to stop the meltdowns in the future.And sometimes there can be a feeling like, well, I'm neurodivergent, so I just have meltdowns. But it's not that simple.It's saying, we all, as a team, like you're saying with teamwork, we all, as a team, are working to help you not to have these or to limit them. And you're part of that process. And I want to be a part of that process with you. So let's work that out.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. It. It's. That's right. We absolutely don't want to be throwing up our hands and saying, you're neurodivergent.Well, there's nothing to be done because just it's not like that. And that's not helpful loving in any way. So saying, you know, you're going to find the world challenging in these areas.That doesn't mean, oh, well, then you'll have meltdowns because of that. It means, okay, let's work to communicate with the school that the school bell is too loud near your classroom.Let's communicate with the school that you're going to wear ear muffs when you choose to.Let's put in your control iced water in your Drink bottle or whatever it might be so that you are able to take that responsibility and start to regulate.And then when they come home from school or they come home from being out or even they're around home and feeling triggered, what are you going to do to regulate? No, don't just sit down on the couch with the iPad or whatever it might be. Let's not just press pause, let's work.This is a moment to not let this sort of. Not to be climbing this mountain towards a meltdown.You've got responsibility to recognize where, where possible, what your body's doing and be working towards that. And so what a wonderful thing too, it feels no one wants to be out of control.And so this is really helpful to put some of these things back in their hands.And so after the meltdowns, this is an opportunity to say, perhaps we could try wearing your earmuffs a little more often around the house or around school, or perhaps when you came home today, we should have recognised that it had been a big day and worked to play basketball outside together. We can be working together to say, okay, we could have brought the meltdown down earlier.And you'll need to also reflect together on what happened during the meltdown. When you were having this meltdown, what were you feeling? Tell me about what emotions you had.For some children, this is a lovely invitation and they'll take this up. For others, this is either scary or not something they want to do. You could offer for them. Would you like to draw?Maybe they're interested in dinosaurs. Would you like to draw a dinosaur that represents how you felt at that moment in the meltdown?Would you like to choose one of my stickers that tells you that could tell me how you felt during the meltdown? Or do you want to listen to some music together and you could tell me which song is closest to how you felt in a meltdown?For some kids, none of that is possible.Maybe picking a face to explain how they felt, working with your child, their abilities, their capabilities to think through if they'd like to communicate to you how they felt, but also inviting them. What do you wish I did when having that meltdown? Was it okay that I was sitting near you and you could hear me breathing calmly? You don't want that.Would it have been better if I stayed in the room nearby working out? What did they like? What didn't they like?Oh, you wish I gave you a big cuddle or you wish I didn't give you a big cuddle in order to be saying, we're in this together and you might have certain parameters. No, I'm not going to leave you alone.I will stay with you if that's appropriate for the child, but I will sit as far away as possible from you in that moment. Or no, I'm not going to stop breathing because I want you to hear my calm breathing if that's something that the child needs.But how about I stop talking?So working out what your child needs and some things that you'll insist on, but listening to their preferences, particularly sensory preferences or particularly needs around what they want to hear from you in those moments is just a lovely way again, communicating this teamwork that we want.

Yeah. And that curiosity also says, I'm not here to shame you or to deal with your. With guilt. I'm here to help you and work with you to move forward.So it's not the question of, okay, meltdown's over. Now, when you were having a meltdown, you said this to me and it really hurt. And you know, I. I feel like I've said things like that in the past.So this is reflecting and saying, no, that is not. It's just not valuable. It doesn't help anyone.But to say, okay, what was going on for you in that moment and how can we turn that around and change it for the future?

Yeah, I think that's right. And then down the line, um, yeah.So again, whether it's the next day or the weekend to actually you can raise things like when you said that I don't love you or that I'm an idiot, whatever it might be, that really hurt my feelings and give them an opportunity. It's probably on their mind as well, giving them an opportunity if they remember saying it. That's true for some. Actually.Memories are raised during meltdowns, and so that can be at a level of complexity, but still worth making sure that we're able to have these conversations. Well, you might need to reflect with your child about words that were spoken during the meltdown.So you might need to remind them, if they're able to remember that they used words like they called you a name or they said that you don't love them. You might need to remind them about this.It might be very much on their mind that they said this and to give them a gentle chance to say, oh, sorry, mum, that's not what I meant. And it can really help to help children kind of do a redo of those words.So they said, mum, you don't love me in the meltdown to actually prompt them to Say, mum, I know you love me. It can help you as a parent.It can also help the child to have a chance to kind of do a redo now that they're out of the meltdown, now that they're through the danger zone, to be repairing this relationship, to remember that words do matter, we understand what was going on in that time and working together to repair and to build that relationship, to do a redo together can be really helpful.

Yeah, that's a really gentle way of approaching it because as we said, they may not remember saying it or they weren't saying it out of a logical place of, hey, I'm going to really work to put the verbal dagger in the heart at this moment.And so there's a graciousness in saying, you know, there was something going on for you there, but to acknowledge there is hurt, but hey, we can move forward in that and we can change that narrative together. It helps them to acknowledge your feelings and your concern so that the love isn't all going one way, it's going two ways.And even if they don't remember saying it, they can still see in you that there's some hurt. And inviting them to help you with that in the way that you're also helping them.

Yeah, that's right. And not. Not picking at every single thing that was said or done. Choosing one and working on that can be really helpful.You know, this all leads to a question that I get quite a lot and the question goes a bit like this. In fact, I'm going to quote a mother here. This is a question that she sent to me.She says, what in my child's behaviour is sin and I need to teach her to repent? And what is just difference when she melts down and lashes out? How responsible is she for her behavior because she's a child?Or how much responsibility is mine as her parent for not letting her get to that point? It's a great question, isn't it? It shows understanding that there is something different happening in the body.It shows understanding that she's a child. It shows understanding as well that the parents do have some responsibility in this and where does the weight go?What is a person's responsibility who's meltdown and said or done something hurtful? What's a parent's responsibility in helping reduce these triggers, in helping them regulate? I think this is a great question to dive into now.

It's a huge question and it's an important one, but this is going to sound weird, but I also think it's not one to get too hung up on in the sense that there is some degree where you'll never fully be able to give a black and white answer, like you're trying to find out questions of what's going on in the heart. And the only person who can see what's going on in the heart is God.And so if you want to come away saying this part is sinful and that part is not sinful and this part is like that, that's actually going to be too tricky.

Yeah, I think those are really helpful reflections, Dave. I've asked this of numerous Christian adults and one Christian woman had just a really helpful answer.I want to read her whole quote, so just bear with me while I read it. I think she's got a really helpful way of approaching it and I've got lots to learn from her. She's wonderful.So she says this quote, I think it could be really easy to look at meltdowns as a sign of reaching emotional capacity and therefore absolve us of all responsibility.If I shout at my kids or my husband after a massive day at church because I've well and truly reached my emotional capacity and could no longer tolerate any more stress on my system, am I still responsible? And she goes on to answer this question that she raises. So she says, quote, I actually think that's the wrong question to be asking.We know from Scripture that all of us are born sinners with a heart posture inclined towards self and away from God. But we also know that our bodies are part of the creation that has been fractured as a result of sin.So to ask the question, is this a result of my sinfulness or is this a result of my brokenness is in many ways two sides of the same coin.Either way, the reason I'm shouting at my husband is because I exist to in a world that doesn't work right, in a body that doesn't work right, with a heart that doesn't work right. And I'm waiting for the day when Jesus returns to make everything right again.And she goes on to talk about how she sees it as she has a responsibility to learn her body's cues that are leading up to a meltdown and to be responding well to those cues so that she has more self control, so that she can be more loving to others.

Yeah, and I guess there's a sense in which, like I think what she said is so helpful in that there is a we are a complicated being and in the fallen state we're very complicated. It does raise the question what do I need to repent from? Because we want to teach our children to repent.And, and like, you know, you could be in a wheelchair just because of the broken nature of the world, but it's not sinful. And so you don't need to repent of being in a wheelchair. But are there things that have gone on that you do need to repent from?Well, it's a bit like we were talking about before, about going over that language that hurt the other person. It could be very hard to work out what percentage of responsibility they have for the words that come out of their mouth in that meltdown.But what you can work out and work on is love for the other person. And so when they are out of the meltdown, I want them to have a love and concern for the effect of the other person.That doesn't necessarily draw on whether they're guilty or not, but it, but it actually says, this person is hurt and I want to care for them and I want to do what I can to, to change that.

Yeah, I think it's complicated, isn't it?Because in all of this, there's just this swirl of we as parents or carers have a responsibility to be growing and understanding about what's happening, to be growing in compassion, to be growing in patience, like we can be working on ourselves. This is so important.We also have that responsibility of helping our children recognize that their actions have real impacts, helping our children recognize that, that there is forgiveness from Jesus and to work together as a family to be forgiving and understanding each other. We also want to be working with our children to, to take that responsibility, to bring down those triggers as they can. And it's all couched in love.So the outworking of all of those things are going to look different for different families. They're going to look different week by week, month to month, year to year, as things change in that person, in relationship over time.And so it's a conversation worth constantly having and doing that in love, working towards bringing glory to God in all that we're doing.

Yeah. And you know, when you're teaching anyone anything, it's about choosing the teachable moment.

Yes, that's right.

And we are teaching our children. We're raising our children towards adulthood, God willing, Christian adulthood. And so all of this is teaching.And when you're trying to teach something, you want to do it in the clearest moment.So when, you know, if my child just comes home and eats the chocolate donut that my whole family knew was my donut, and that I was really looking forward to eating that donut. And it hasn't come out of. No, but, you know, if I had a chocolate donut, that'd be great. No, but at that point, it's. It's not a meltdown.It's a really obvious thing that they've done wrong. And it's a really easy teaching point to say, hmm, okay, why did you do that? What was wrong in what you did? What do you need to do now?How can you repent?And that's a really easy discussion in the meltdown situation where all those feelings of shame and guilt and things, all those things that are really hard to pick apart are there. Well, what do you want to teach your child in the moment? You certainly want to teach them responsibility in going forward.What are your responsibilities for helping there not to be another meltdown or, you know, know, at least mitigating those factors. You want to look at responsibility for loving people and caring for people going forward. But when those feelings of shame and guilt are so strong.One of the biggest things I want to teach at that moment is compassion and grace and to model to them what that looks like.And so if you look at Jesus when he goes hard at someone in the gospels, it's because usually it's because they don't think they've done anything wrong ever. But when people come to him, like when the prostitutes come to him, he's not saying, hey, you know, you're really dodgy and you need to stop that.They actually coming to him because they feel that weight of, you know, everything that's gone on and. And Jesus is just so kind and compassionate and loving.And I think in that moment, or in that flow on from there, I want to show that compassion and kindness so that they can see that side of the character of God really clearly through my actions.

Yeah, that's right. And why don't we turn to the Bible now and actually remind ourselves of this character of God? Because we have a God who is just so loving.So if we turn to Psalm 136, this is a lovely psalm that just repeats again and again. For his steadfast love endures forever. And it's something we might want to be repeating to ourselves, to our children again and again.God's steadfast love endures forever. It's so big, it soaks everything. Let's read verses one to three. Give thanks to the Lord for he is good for his steadfast love endures forever.Give thanks to the God of Gods for his Steadfast love endures forever. Give thanks to the Lord of Lords for his steadfast love endures forever. The psalm goes on like this. God is good.God is someone we can thank for all that he is, and he's the Lord of Lords. His love is enduring through easy times, through hard times.Whether we're parenting in a really excellent way or whether we can see ways that we can improve. His steadfast love endures forever.

Yeah, one of the lovely things about the psalm is it actually it goes through history, so it talks about creation and God's steadfast love there, but then also looks at God's salvation of his people, Israel, and a whole bunch of events through that. And I think that's so helpful because if you just have the line, his steadfast love endures forever, that's a concept.And some days you might feel like that concept is right, and other days you might feel like, yeah, I don't know if that's true or what that means, but going back to those events says, look at what God did. Look at what God did. Look at what God did. In each of these things, we can see that his love is faithful. It's steadfast. It never ends.So today, now, despite what's happened, we know that God still loves us. So one of the things that I'd often reflect on with my kids is like, let's look at the cross of Jesus Christ. Okay?Is God really going to send Jesus to live out that life and to then die on a cross in that horrible, horrible way and then later on go, yeah, I'm just not into this whole project anymore. I'm going to give up on them. Of course, not.Like, it doesn't make sense given God's actions, which is why, you know, just to put another plug in, I've done the other podcast stories of a faithful God. Because when we know what God's done in the past, we can see his steadfast love. And that helps us in the present to be confident of that.And so to be able to draw our kids eyes back to what God's done, proving his love is so helpful. And it's helpful for us as well when we're feeling low and flat. Because otherwise you're just caught in the moment, aren't you?You know, I've just had this horrible evening where all these things have happened in our family. If your eyes are just on that, you might feel like God is not loving. But to draw our eyes out wider helps us to see.Hang on, there is Much more going on here. And so, yes, God is still loving, even if I don't feel it in that moment, I can know it for sure.

And how wonderful to be this side of the cross. The psalmist hasn't seen what God's going to do in Jesus.We have this secure thing that God's already done in the past in Jesus, in Jesus dying, in him raising, in him ascending into heaven. Our futures are secure. God's love is so clear.And everything that we have in Christ we have through these difficult times, in these good times and forever.Well, what a wonderful thing to keep on our minds as we parent, as we love people in our homes, as we look at our own failings and our own successes as well. To keep on coming back to the cross and keep on turning back to God, who is worthy of glory and praise.There are so many more big questions we've been sent, I've been asked.And next week we've got a very different sort of episode where Dave and I are going to open up a document with some of these questions in and just answer them together. We'll tackle them together anyway, we'll see how well we go at answering them. I think that's going to be a really interesting episode.So I look forward to seeing you then.

Yeah, absolutely. It's going to be lots of fun.If you're finding this podcast helpful, if you think that this is a really good thing and a good ministry, then we would really like your help. We would really like your help for some finances to help fund our time and the various resources that go into making this podcast.You can donate through our website, faithforgod.net, just go into the Neurodivergence Family and Faith site. There's. And there's a donate page that would be really helpful. If you can't do that or you're not up for it, that's okay.But we would love any help that you can give. For now, keep trusting Jesus and we'll speak again soon.

Bye. Hi, I'm Kate Morris.

And I'm Dave Whittingham.

Hang on, I think I have my teeth.

Well, g' day everyone. Welcome back to. To Stories of a Faithful God. There you go. Tell what I've been recording this week. Stories of a Faithful God. Great podcast.Everyone should listen.

Not the moment, Dave. Not the moment.

Oh, yeah, okay. I. That there's a whole lot of things about. No, forget that bit.

That sounded like that was going to be good.

Yeah, yeah, it did, didn't it?

If only that was the second after the sentence.

If even really wise and helpful. Now I'm going to tell you something wise and then just a blank.

Dave, I've just realized I didn't actually copy this down, but I really want to quote it. Just. If I could have one sec.

No, you're not allowed.

Yeah, just make it up then. Yeah, there we go. Real podcaster now. Yeah, it's the sign of a true podcaster, isn't it? Confident. Should make stuff.

Making stuff up. I can put in a bleep. No, no, I can. I can put in a bleep.

Don't, don't, don't. Cuz it'll sound like I actually swore and that's my nightmare. No. Okay, I'll just say the. Sorry. Editing Dave has to sort that out in the future, so.Sorry.